Pretty much nothing gets my blood boiling like "parental" abuse and when people desmiss it, so I am torn on that.
The thing is, even in the movies, qui gon finds that slave boy, basically buys him, fails to communicate with anyone anything, cause he just does not deem it relevant. The kid is the chosen one, he following the forces will qui gon said so, so thats the only relevant factor, he does not get why rules should apply to him or whoever he champions, so he also does not get how to play the game. Tholme also brought in quinlan vos way to old, but he went through the right channels, could genuinly and competently reason the hows and whys and what all goes into the exceptions. Qui gons disregard for anyones perspective then his own sabotaged that meeting and poisoned anakins relationship with the counsel. If he played by the rules, gave a background on what situation anakin came from and how that impacted his reedings and all, he could have gotten approval, if he had arguments beside plain, "cause I said so" . The council plain done with his hijinks partialy denied just to shom him he cant just do whatever and walk all over them, lacking all and any perspectiv of what that means for anakin, cause they have no way of knowing!
Ok, not all of that is easely read from the movie, but that qui gon failed to inform them of anakins situation, and that he was willing to disown the kid he raised for years as an afterthought to getting his will..... Thats really messed up and as such in the movie, same as his last words being not at all for obi wan, thwir last interaction is how he values a random kid more than what should be his son... Great
Thing id, especially the new padaeans are not ment to end up in whatever mess the master gets involved in!!! Qui gon judt really sucks at risk evaluation and the senat often gives faulty and lacking information. Often a harmless sounding mission suddenly turns into way more, and way worse, as with no one knew how bad melida/daan was, thats qlso why no one questioned qui gons bs of obi wan running of with a girl. They where only supposed to be her ride back and yes, qui gon should have done, what every sensible jedi is supposed to do, and leave obi wan in the temple, when taking on risky missions!!!
Inexperienced padawan learners are not ment ti get brought to war zones! Most mastets spend more time on courusant, only take on easy duty and slowly train their padawans, but qui gon hated that, he needed action, so he just went wherever and obi wan had to tag along as an afterthought and since the force provides, who needs risk evaluation?
The council failed to reign in qui hon and qui gon failed to consider or care about what missions it is appropriate to take on with his padawan, and which are not. And the moment a supposedly low stakes mission turns sour, he failed every time in every way to prioritise obi wans safety. That would have been his job, but since he is single minded follow "the will of the force" quigon, he never got that and rather bullheaded his way through the mission, instead of evacuating the kid in his care.
Jedi do have a safe person early on their crechmaster and most keep in contact with them, well into their knighthood!
The thing is, the master is suppesed to be their parent, not just their teacher, and as with most families, thete is no additional safety net. Every dane master would put their padawans wellbeing first, but the fact that once its shown to be not the case, I would expect them to have a cps protocol that very obviously failed obi wan. Furthermore, usually others in the liniage help along eith the master rounding out the family, giving additional support and well, keeping an eye on their relationship so everything is well, but qui gon is estranged from his master, his brother is way far away and the only person left is the damned emotionaly inempt troll that enabled qui gons abuse out of favoritism.....
Technically there are systhems in place, but obi wan fell through the cracks and I agree, thete could be and should be more!!!
And sadly, qui gon thought hinself above mindhealers and keept obi wan away from them too....
When you point it (the difference in too-old-child being introduced to the Order) out like that, it is all the more upsetting how things turned out. It pretty much feels like Qui Gon saw a shiny ball and decided it will be his next toy, everything else be damned.
I mean, I know this is fictional story, but making such portrayals and not allowing for positive solutions seems (currently) a bit too much like enabling wrong actions? I am rather sore on that subject and too in favour of fluff and comfort stories. Or those that have actual consequences. Those are good too. Now that I think about it, my issue is that my style of plotting out stories leans more towards feel-good fantasy and making full blown scenarios where things happen just as you plan them to and all-knowing narrator explains, but there is little space for trial, error or even simply things going sideways - like they easily would on a jedi mission with too little intel. I am disagreeable enough to not like that realistic turn of events more often than not.
Ugh, I have some more thoughts on the topic of Qui Gon or simply - what might have alternatively happened to make Kenobi's life a bit easier or Skywalker's future, for that matter. It just feels bit emotionally draining to converse about and I pretty much got a headache at least in 1/3 because of emotional rollercoaster. Thanks for writing back, have a good day ;)
Thats exacly how qui gons brain works, single minded focus, his way or the high way, oh a possably proficised child, he is fated to be a jedi, so he is mine now, what I already got a padaean, yeah whatever, oh a butterfly
For all his stay in there present/here and now, he is compleatly unable to see consequences and really be in the momemt instead of his very limited view of it.
I disagree, i feel like a positive resolution no matter what has more danger potential then showing how harmful behavior is realistically lead to its often pretty bleak conclusion. Acting like abuse does no harm buy a mirable happy end, thats way more enabeling, then driving home, why what he did was wrong and what harm it causes, like the first litetally excuses it while the later takes aeay all excuses
Cozy fluff has its place but then qui gon has to be an entirely different character and fee and xanatos would be around for the happy family
I like fix it, but I require realistic consequences and real solutions. Like redeeming qui gon needs him to go to therapy, appologise, and show slow but steady change instead of just, oh one conflict magically fixed it and he should be just forgiven, no harm done.
While depressing showing the realistic consequences, having the trauma adressed and in case of wui gon, the partnership broken up has a therapeutic effect of me, cause I often feel like screaming into a void when it comes to abuse, of stories depicting really desturbingly toxic behavior, but acting like it deas not impact anyone and is alright.
Obi wan could have died on melida/daan, he is scared for life in all ways from his experiences there, still qui gon gets to be treated like he was a good jedi and master...
A fix it needs to feel earned in my eyes
Yeah, I get you, no worries, it is really really taxing and I also only engage with the topic, when I feel up to it. It is really raw and delicate.
I might have miswrote it. I am too wordy and tangled up for this. It's not that I don't agree with showing truthfully how toxic or otherwise damaging actions/relationships/events have consequences in basically all people involved. Or simply that actions have consequences, things happen and we know it realistically. Just how children's books can show and explain real life consequences, being a way to teach morality and ethics in one way or another (even if a story about a little bear that ate too many sweets, hurt their teeth and had to go to the dentist might not have much in way of ethics... unless the little bear tried to lie to their mama or papa bear to his own detriment?), other works should be able to bring up much more complicated or otherwise relevant topics. Showing them truthfully is much better than being dismissive of the problem or hand-weavy about the solution (instant healing or 180 turn on behaviour just like that, maybe after one conversation? Unbelievable to me). It at least allowed for some exploration of topics we might not have context.
I myself am somewhat catching myself on self-reflection that only in literary context I see how some of my actions weren't the best, my relationships damaged and so on. All the while those are often actions or attitudes I would criticise in character.
What I meant more in fact was - that often I feel about some turns of events in the story strongly enough to wish for "no fix-it necessary AU". Likely all the while missing the point of the problematic topic being explored, because I read while emotionally compromised for such story. Some post Rako Hardeen stories are just that kind of heartbreak. Do I understand all parties involved? Somewhat. But I also know that I am too invested in the fluff-filled life centred around one character or another and in most Star Wars-related reads I am strictly in Obi-Wan's camp and missing most empathy for some of the others. (Writing it like this I see my issue better. I am terribly low on empathy for multiple people/characters at once it seems. Huh, the more you know...)
I also wouldn't like Qui Gin's redemption (or any other fix-it) without all mentioned parts. Trust is easily broken and lost, to rebuild it... Yes. Some things didn't come about only because of Qui Gon's own attitude - favouritism and silent non-acted-upon disapproval come to mind... There was bound to be some inside process to discipline a member of the Order, always a question if they would have enough ground to start such a disciplinary action, it would go through the Council or be fully required of Jinn to be acted upon).
No problem ^^, thats a really good way of describing it! Like with a dentist, just that while most kids tales get a happy end, at least nowerdays, in adult stories, and old fairy tales, sometimes there also is not a happy end and that can also be valuable to show, that some actions, some mistakes you can not come back from. It should not be always, never always, but both how to defeat the dragon and dont do that or else doom stories have valuable lessons to teach and deserve their spaces.
But I also agree, that now and then, a never needed to be fixed one is really nice to, I am picky about those, as always, but I do love a good one of those!
Both of the other types need one being in the right state if mind for it and can be even harmful if one is to frayed and plain needs comfort. If everything hurts, plain and simple fluff and comfort is best.
In star wars, my favorite flavor for it is is ahsoka and clone hijinks ^^ But I also love what if the liniage where a happy family with xanatos. Fee, dooku and absolut no melidaan
I have a very similar problem with batman, gosh I dispise that guy, (mainly cause of an obi wan analogous chara) But I love the flavor of batfamily messes with outsiders lacking context( justice league or kindnappers) thats my its all funny and fluff thing...
I know very well why beside horror and let it have propper consequences ffs my most consumed media is nostalgic kids stuff.
Sometimes one really really needs that soothing everything will be good balm when one is so raw that everything else just burns
Reading is an amazing tool to learn switching perspectives, question our assumptions and learn empathy!
Yeah, we need time and self reflection to really be able to tell, when maybe, our anger was not as justified, or we might have overteacted, cause we lacked context and asigned an intention that was not there. Thats pretty normal that it is easyer to tell that after reading something similar but with more context. No one is perfect and empathy needs understanding, and understanding needs expoisior. It is actually a show of good empathy that you are able to review your actions in a different light, once you got added context. One cant always immediately translate what one learned in ones actions, but it still helps, especially with apologising.
It is also pretty common one is drawen to one characters perspective more, then to others and obi wan just makes so much more sense then ani for example after the hardeen ark. With the fact you even question your perception and try to sympathise with everyone involved already has you ahad of many, that never question the first or easyiest emotional impuls!
Overall, thanks heavens Ao3 has fikters, so one can always adjuste the read to what one can stomach at the time
I can't really continue with too long responses, because they start to seriously meander, just know that you made me smile all the more with your kind words.
I value well tagged fics above anything. Before I ended up on AO3 (sometime in early 2021 I think, but for the longest time I didn't make an account, lying to myself that bookmarking 300+ works, series or lists of works with specific tag in internet browser is a good solution) I read on fanfiction.net and searching for something was a mess. At the time I had close to none self restraint of the "I don't like it, I won't read it anymore, close forever" type do things got often chucked into bookmarks to disappear into the void. For the life of me can't remember what I was mostly reading about back then, but before that I was mostly reading reincarnation or simply adventure romance Chinese or Korean novels finding translations via novelupdates and that was a slightly lesser mess, but still awful experience. In the meantime I learned how data bases are actually constructed and how to use SQL so the technical understanding of the issue gives me more patience, but still AO3 makes me much happier. Simply because I can almost not acknowledge existence of pairings or tags that are plainly too "icky" for my brain to end up reading about it anymore. Like... Palpatine/(anyone I like) is a thing of nightmares and there was some body horror involved so... Yeah eyes and brain to bleach.
All good, know the struggle and am very verbose, starting way to many topics etc, it gets a lot
Glad I could make you smile, now I did something useful this day ^^
Got tagging really is everything, sadly I often am to curious for my own good, I often end up reading stuff, cause a tag was so absurd or repulsive, I needed to know.... There could not be enough brain bleach in the world for what I have read at this point, but ao3 allowed me too controll when I come across the bad, very valuable.
Well, I can't say that there aren't moments where curiosity wins over, just... Some things can be questionable but still be read because damn if I give up, however there are things are just no-nos. It's just difficult to point out some of them. Like, there are some very questionable tags when mixed up, but on their own could work out well enough... I might have wanted to point some out but realised we are basically chatting under fic with General Audience classification so... Yeah. 🤦♀️ Discretion on the details seems prudent.
yes. this exactly. the jedi should have safeguards in place. and for most people they do. obiwan cresh master wasn't as good. they didn't listen to obiwan about the bullying by bruck. so there was the lack of that safe person. the master should be the parent. who looks after and does risk assessment. like quinlans master. But due to jinn being such a bad master and keeping obiwan away from his lineage, there is the lack of support and thus abuse can happen i always felt like there should be more systems in place to help prevent abuse. but the jedi order is very much stuck in their ways. this isnt saying that they will improve. also, jinn is the fav grandpadawan of yoda, so i always think yoda is manipulating the system to project jinn. even if its at the expense of obiwan jinn just needs mind healing. and no more children ever. i hate how jinn threw away obi for ani. ani needed so much help. i don't think obiwan was the best master for ani, but this is also due to his horrific pawadanship and his own trauma. but i think that obiwan tried his best. i think that ani would have still fallen if jinn was his master. if not faster.
the jedi order is also getting activly destabalised for centuries, there are way to few of them, recon suck, yoda got way to many stupid ideas stuck in his frogbrain and no one dares to stand up to him propperly to shake sense into him, they have so many problems... And in regards to the troll using Obi wan as a sacrificial pawn for qui gon, not ev3n, but especially at obi wans expense.
I wouls feel so sorry for jinn, if I would not want to mutalate him in every way I could think of for how he "raised" obi wan.... He needs therapy so desperatly but the fact he rather makes it everyone elses problem then ever question himself and get that therapie prwtty effectivly evecurates all good will in his favor.
Obi wan is a pretty amazing jedi, and great master even despite all that happened to him, just not for ani. He was way to young, qui gon very effectively made clear "obi wan was far from ready for knighthood", he just lost his (abusive) master for who he was never good enough, he has zero self worth and no room for imperfection. A tempelraised padawan, wpuls have been able to understand the nuance in his behavior, what he means when he says he is extreamly worries but acts calm nontheless. Ani cant. Obi wan gave anakin the same shite advice he got from qui gon, cause that was the only example he got, especially the reaction to anakins horror vision of his mother wad parroted from what yoda and qui gon hammered into obi wans brain about his own, very strong clairvoyance.
Every single isshe they have can be traced back to How qui gon traumatised obi wan and still, if he had ahsoka, he would have been a great master!
He failed with anakin, because of how much more support anakin would have needed, and their relationship having been poisoned by how they got togeather. Literally it wents, oh no, obi wan is fare away from ready for knighthood to, lets throw him aeay, want the shiny new toy! Wait, yeah sure obi wan is ready(to be replaced) .... My last words to my son, I have to make sure I undermine his selfworth some more and drive home I only care about the new kid! Obi wan being not or just ready for kighthood makes him especially ready for one of the most delicate and explosive padawans ever!!!
Anakin would not have made it to knighthood under qui gon, genuinly, no way, obi wan has an endless amount more patience and emptional inteligence qui gon and ani would have crashed and burned
Obi wan would have been willing and able to help ani with many of his grievancees and problems, if ani would have been willing to just talk to him, but obi wan compensating for his lacking selfworth and the heavy scrutiny he was under for all his padawanship and especially now as the chosen ones master, projected so strongly the perfect jedi image, that ani never felt him approachable. Ani also never believed obi wan when obi wan tried to be relatable, talk abput how many struggle in the beginning with things, that he himself struggled with it, cause ani himself could not comprehend someone being able to mask that well.... Ani himself and palpes convinced him so ardently, that obi wan could never understand, that obi wan also did not feel free to share for example, his own experience with slavery, which would have humanised him to ani, cause that would feel like trivialising anis way worse experience to obi wans ever present imposter syndrom.
Obi wan had the task of raising a padawan, with no context for anything jedi, unadressed trauma, without a liniage to help, no resources, starting at one of the worst moments of his life and his mental health being on fire in general and without palpes influence, or if ani had been even a bit less like qui gon, he probably would have succeeded still!
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