Yep, it started with a person that actually deserved it, and yes, a singular person. Then became people willingly sacrificing themselves. That slowly turned into removing less than very useful attachments because attachments are weaknesses in Dumbledore's eyes. :v
Well, Dumbledore definitely believes otherwise. He believes he is the Chief of the village, therefore in charge of everything. And if this village does not have him, then it will fall. In reality, it might fall, but it is more likely to keep on existing with another in leader in place. :v
Nobody says, that he is wise or even sane...and the village may still be doomed...however you need to question his actions...
Have you ever seen the *original Wicker man movie* from the 1970s...it's something that needs to be watched...
The current cult leader lures an arrogant Christian Police officer to their Scottish island to seek for a missing young teenage girl! Of course, that's a trap...
But there were some discussions, if the cult leader would be willing to sacrifice himself for the village...I would argue, that as a person, who had been raised within this cult by his family and as a leader, yeah, he would do it, should he also have already secured his legacy and has a son or even a daughter, who could take over...
He would certainly *not* try to escape this fate...as for him the villagers on the island and their well-being comes first!
True. The village definitely still could be doomed.
I haven't seen the movie, but it does seem interesting. :v
Ah, but Dumbledore was not raised in a cult, but rather created it, against the Deatheaters. A sort of trying to one up them, although he says it's do stop the Deatheaters from causing more chaos and death. Dumbledore would never say The Orders was a cult either.
Does Dumbledore truly care about some of the members? Yes. Minerva, Severus, the Weasleys, and the Muaraders are included. But in the end, he still prefers power over the people. He started sacrificing people, despite not needing to because he needed something to dictate, some kind of power. Anything to make himself stand out. If he held the power to decide who to be sacrifice, he would be the leader, if not a very high power in society.
If he didn't, he would be at most be called hailed a hero for being the leader to be against Voldemort and his Deatheater, and creating the village. It's not at all means to be a bad reputation. But being a hero may fade away, much like after defeating Grindelwald and Voldemort rose. People forgot he ever defeated an "evil" being already. And being the creator of the village. People would thank him. But wouldn't they thank him more for deciding not to sacrifice them, and someone else?
Indeed...especially with Dumbledore as the village leader...
I can only recommend it...but, please do not watch the abysmal remake with Nicholas Cage :(
Doesn't make it any better...and saying you're against a cult, just to create you one, that's even worse... Of course not, when would he ever admit that?
A good question - probably not...or just about a few chosen ones, which will also be kept in the dark about his narcisstic and evil ways, until it's much too late to stop them...
Sorry, I just find it unbelievable, that the whole staff and the students witnesses his cursed black & withered hand for a whole school year, and nobody is asking any questions or reminds the Daily Prophet about it...after all, if someone got struck by a Deadly Curse, then there is no need to waste any more lethal spells on him!
Exactly, not only would that cut down any potential rivals, but also increase the fear among the villagers - you could be next, if you dare to speak up...oops
True, and he couldn't stand for that...he needs to be *always* on their minds...
Yep. Well, it was a easy fucked up way to obtain power. You see, that cult over there? The one that is mass murdering? We should stop them by also mass murdering. It changes nothing. And since when does Albus Dumbledore own up to anything he does?
Well true. Dumbledore cares about his pawns, enough that they don't drift away from his control and go off track of his plan.
Agreed. Humans are curious by nature, especially the Ravenclaws. They should've found out what happened to Dumbledore's hand and might spread the word.
Of course. Even Mad-Eye, a well known friends of Albus Dumbledore's was sacrificed. He might have said he wanted to be the one who was sacrificed, but truly everyone knew the truth. Dumbledore said it was him, so it was him.
Obviously, and still claiming to be the better one, because we're doing it for the Greater Good...not for some cult...yeah, right :P Agreed...never, if he can avoid it!
As long as they can still be useful, or not become a danger for himself!
Exactly - not only the Ravenclaws, since most Gryffindors are in team Dumbledore, why should they not want to figure out, which curse had hit him? And if there is any cure at all...we should also believe, that RIta Skeeter or event he Ministry wouldn't poke around, after someone informs a third party about it? Highly unlikely...as Fudge's successor would use it to instil another *puppet headmaster* at Hogwarts...while taking Harry in Ministry custody...oops
Voldemort would also wanted to stay in the loop, and just be it to gloat to his Death Eaters how Dumbledore got deadly wounded by one of the Dark Lord's most evil curses!
Yeah, don't really trust that any of Dumbledore's victims agreed to be sacrificed for his Greater Good - are we sure that he didn't drug or compel them to enter that church? And if only Dumbledore is leaving that building alive, I would be questioning his motives...
Naturally, and how dare anyone be born, who are much more powerful than Dumbledore himself? The audacity of those young wixen! :P
Yep, the Gryffindors as well. Honestly, the Gryffindors might not even blame Dumbledore if Dumbledore tells the right tale to them.
Oop, poor Harry. QwQ
Dumbledore would definitely lie about what the cause is, meanwhile Voldemort absolutely knew it was because the old senile goat touched something he was not suppose to.
Plus, Dumbledore goes back into the church to remove the bodies, to confirm they are indeed dead. Some may have truly sacrificed themselves, and others, not so much. The Weasley twins were definitely unwilling. They wanted to proof Molly wrong about their joke shop. And even if they wanted to die, they would do it together. Not a bloody year separate.
Indeed, how dare they. Albus Dumbledore must be forever and constantly in everyone's minds, not some wixen that's barely over a tenth of Dumbledore's age.
Obviously, no need to ask any questions, and blindly believes in the Greater Good :(
Agreed...
Indeed, he would spin a wild tale, nobody needs to know, that he was *too stupid* to check for malicious curses, before putting on a cursed ring...oops Informing the dark lord would only assure, that nobody needs to plot Dumbledore's demise any longer...and you can use those men for other purposes....
Naturally, can't allow anyone to escape, or even check the dead bodies...as you said, if it's the twins, they would only agree to be sacrificed together, not a year apart...and they had so much to live for...
Exactly, how dare they to be born much more powerful, or not even following his crazy schemes at all?
Well, there are spies in Hogwarts for sure for Voldemort. Voldemort should've known about Dumbledore touching the cursed ring, and changed plans accordingly in the first place.
Yep. They wanted to prove thier mother in this case, wrong. They wanted to show the world that what they are doing, making their own passion could be done. But nope. They got sacrificed because Dumbledore said so.
Pfft, it's not like they would die now. Well, at least not a for a while. Just as soon as Dumbledore needs someone to be sacrificed and that sacrificed pawn just happens to be you. But but but, that's different. That's something Dumbledore can't even control. So don't blame a silly old man now. :v
Naturally...and they will certainly not ask questions :P
Agreed, which made even less sense, that Draco should try to murder Dumbledore...just disarm him or steal the wand would have been enough...and he could have still installed Severus Snape as new headmaster, after they've taken over the Ministry of Magic! It's also annoying, that there is the list with *all DA members* and nothing gets done with it...they've could be arrested for treason or other reasons or even enslaved, as they've all signed *more or less* voluntarily...oops
Totally justified, and also benefit from their ideas, too...they had no reason to sacrifice themselves for the Greater Good...it would made much more sense to sacrifice Molly, after she has no more children...but it was the twins that got sacrificed...
Naturally, just buying his time, creating a list and then when he deems the right moment has come, the next *unlucky soul* will be sacrificed for Dumbledore's goals...
Oh, please...he can't escape the blame any longer :P
Yep. They absolutely would've been arrested for treason. They are called the DA, the Dumbledore's Army, after all. Is it technically an extra defense class because Umbridge wasn't teaching shit? Yes. But the name of it and it being in Hogwarts while Dumbledore was the headmaster? No wonder the ministry wanted to arrest him for it. One, obviously, one less man with power against the ministry, but it was literally treason.
Yeah, but Dumbledore wouldn't sacrifice Molly at the moment. She has produced many good pawns, and it would be better if she wild continue to do so. The Weasley Twins are quite disobedient to her, so why wouldn't Dumbledore help out...and well sacrifice them? Molly wouldn't have a problem with that.
Ah yes, "unlucky". Truly all of Dumbledore's pawns are unlucky to fall into his hands in the first place. However many also reaped some kind of benefits from it. :v
But Dumbledore will, of course, try his hardest. He will point the fingers at someone else, and that someone would likely be a believable candidate to do such. If everyone bands together to take him down, that would be the best for mostly everyone. c:
If they're lucky...otherwise they could have been easily enslaved, as they've all signed it out of their own free will :( It's not only the name, but they did *deliberately* exclude all Slytherins, and just for a study group you do not need such secrecy, I also doubt that a professor gave them permission to form such a group, with the golden trio in charge! Not to forget: "Dumbledore's army"...why not DADA study group? They did literally wrote: Dumbledore's army on top of the parchment! (facepalm)
And as they needed Dumbledore's help, he decided to escape with his phoenix, yeah, you can really trust him to protect you from harm :(
Exactly, it was treason, and nothing else; just as his private group, that often caused more harm than good, too :(
Obviously, no reason to sacrifice Molly, but anyone she dislikes within her family...let's say a certain daughter-in-law...Dumbledore will happily oblige...or the twins, who are much too independent and won't listen to her...
That's true, some of them did benefit from it, too...not all, but some...
Of course, that strategy worked for decades, no reason for it to fail now... :P
Sorry for the late response. I was a bit busy for the past few days. QwQ
They technically somewhat did sign their free will already. They signed on a parchment that Hermione cursed if they told anyone of the DA, excluding already members. I'm pretty sure. And that small little curse could've easily been something a lot worse. :v
And yes, they excluded ALL of the Slytherins because they felt that ALL of them would report to Umbridge, meanwhile the world is not that black and white. Dumbledore is basically indoctrinating them into thinking that it is.
Yep, Dumbledore is really such a "good" person to trust to help you from harm.
The Order and the DA, both of them really.
Yep because dear Molly is just such a nice pawn that can create more pawns. Anyone in her family is up to be sacrificed as soon as she dislikes them slightly. Would she think it was a bad thing though? Probably some guilt, but still more on the fact that she was right, and that's why she wasn't chosen to be sacrificed.
Yes, some did, but only some. Most suffered way more than they benefitted from. Because since when is staying in Azkaban for over a decade and then becoming a fugitive on the run for another three years in exchange for allowing to get off of literally any trouble in school a good exchange? >:V
That's alright...I've applied for some jobs during the last few days...and also send a few questions via an online form to a big security company in my home region...but they haven't replied, yet...-> mainly I wanted to know which kind of criminal record certificate I would need, to apply for jobs within their company...as we have 2 types, and it takes a few weeks to get them...after all, it would be good to know this, before applying for one...and I haven't ever needed one before^^
Agreed...and it's even worse, that we should believe that neither Neville nor Susan would check the parchment beforehand; after all as soon as you learn about this, Hermione is just another hypocrite...see, how perfectly she follows Dumbledore's agenda already :(
It got even worse, as Hermione later admits, that she find a way, so that the golden trio, and maybe even Ginny (as I doub that they would include Neville) wouldn't be affected by the jinx...and she didn't care if you got cursed or forced to answer under the influence of Veritaserum...makes you want to jinx her with an more evil version and then compel her to break her word under Veritaserum, too...grr
Obviously...no need for them to gain good marks on their DADA OWLs...Slytherins are untrustworthy etc. -> not caring, that it wasn't only Slytherins who were in cahoots with Umbridge...and not even Umbridge would only use Slytherins to do her dirty work...
Of course and he wouldn't even consider to *ever* backstab you afterwards...or demand anything, that could destroy your soul...
Agreed...
Indeed...and as long as her beloved Ginny is safe, why should she care about the fall out...it's not as if Arthur would learn the truth, before it's too late to stop those sacrifices...imagine Dumbledore would have told her: We need to sacrifice your daughter for the Greater Good...then she may have lost her cool :P
Why am I not surprised...yeah, and that made it even worse... Who knows...after all, as long as Lupin didn't get executed and James & Sirius can still become Aurors, why should they care, as long as their secrets are safe?
Good luck on your job searching. :v Yeah, I had a few tests, and turns out I overstudied for most of them. The one exception was the one my teacher barely teaches in, where they added like two questions that came out of the blue. Pretty sure I got them wrong, so. Also got changed teachers and schedule changes, a few days ago. It was an entire mess. QwQ
I felt like most purebloods would've checked it, no matter the house. Neville and Susan definitely should've checked it. Mostly everyone in The Order is a hypocrite, and that's no suprise when Dumbledore is leading, considering he is literally the biggest hypocrite.
Hermione is purely just ensuring her own benefit, nobody elses. The whole DA idea wasn't even Harry Potter's, it was her's.
Yep, because it doesn't occur to them that literally anyone could be in cahoots with Umbridge. Including people of the Golden Trio....especially Ron. I mean, I don't mean to specifically bash him. But he ditched Harry, his friends since he was eleven, because he was jealous of Harry getting into to Triwizard Tournament. What's stopping Ron from supporting Unbridged because he could shine that way?
Well yes. Because her daughter is the most important child to her. She doesn't exactly care for the rest a lot.
And this is why Dumbledore chosen them to be his pawns. Because they wouldn't care if they're secrets was safe and they were not godly accountable for any of their deeds.
Thanks...since I should mainly look in my home region, hopefully I can find a good job soon...be it a part-time job or even full-time...
Well, it can happen...
I did a few years ago fail one important exam, because our professor had given us a wrong information for the oral part, which meant that the majority of our group, who had passed the writtne exam failed badly...-> we got told: "Each of you have to prepare a presentation to a topic of your choice" -> wrong, we should have explained a certain method, and sadly the substitute professor, that we got the last 2-3 weeks before the exam never contradicted the professor...sure, I did still pass my course with an 1.7; but it would have gave me such an advantage on the job market...alas, it shouldn't be...
Cross my fingers, that you still pass your tests :3
Yeah, they really should have done it...and it made no sense for them to just blindly trust anything Hermione says - be there 5 minutes, and you can see how uncomfortable Harry is...and that he wasn't on board with the study group idea either... Agreed...and still you wouldn't see them ever addmitting it...
Exactly...and hoping that her jinx will prevent the truth from ever coming out...since it happened during her OWL year, she got extremely lucky, that she hadn't been expelled! As this would have meant for her - magic will be bound, she'll be oblivated and her wand will be snapped...oops
Indeed...not to mention, if that would guarantee him a spot at the Auror academy or maybe his favourite Quidditch team? Nobody needs to know...and who would suspect Ron being the snitch all along? But he could have been influenced by Pettigrew over the years...and we have seen how less Dumbledore care about mental aftercare...
Umbridge could just reminded him, that his family could end up in prison, should he not become her personal spy...
Oof. Hopefully it didn't impact your entire future too badly. QwQ
Thanks ^v^
Well, why would they ever admit it? If they did, nobody would trust them anymore, and they don't want that. They wish to use that trust for their own gain, after all.
Oop, Hermione is now back to being a normal "muggle" now. :v
Hah, Dumbledore really believed Severus Snape should've taught Harry Potter Occlumency, the protection of the mind. Truly, it was basically Severus violating Harry's mind until Harry suddenly created a magic shield to block it. Because Severus absolutely did not explain how to do it, and Harry didn't like Snape at all. It was only going to worsen their relationship, and staying together only caused problems. But no, Dumbledore continued to ignore Harry. So yes, Dumbledore definitely cares little to not at all for mental aftercare, probably so that he himself could continue using Ligemency on everyone without being found out.
Umbridge would definitely easily recruit Ron, either by a completely willing Ron or a blackmailed one, if she put her mind to it, but she didn't.
Not really...it's not a demanded requirement any longer...should I ever work in a library, I can still be in charge of interns and students, just not for those, who are doing an apprenticeship at the library...except I would try it again someday after training with a company for it...and since then I *always* started to check those requirements personally...to avoid such traps in the future...
You're welcome^^
That's true...it's not something that they want to be known...
Yeah, the worst punishment for the insufferable know-it-all...not to mention, being forced to attend summer school, just to catch up to regular muggle curriculum...muahaha
Well, Dumbledore didn't really care if that even work, when Voldemort had a direct link into Harry's mind -> otherwise, he would have ensured that Harry receives that lessons much earlier...and sorry, as they do not really trust each other (Not that I blame Professor Snape for that...) -> it was bound to fail sooner or later...
Well, to be honest...everyone uses a different strategy to *empty their minds* -> what may work for Severus, may not work for Gryffindor Harry...and let's not forget, that Hermione *easily* found study material in the school library, and offered Harry to study with him, which he declined, as well as *never even trying to train on his own*
And speaking for myself, should I be forced to put my life on the line for such an arrogant lazy student, I wouldn't be so keen to do it, when a mere glance in his mind tells me: "Did he learn during the past week or not!"
However, it should have been either Moody (someone who wouldn't accept any lame excuses and mercilessly drills Harry!) or Flitwick, as someone, to whom Harry look up to! Should Dumbledore not wanting to do it himself - and that's the least he could do! Just look how Dumbledore treats his spy...ignoring the torture and injuries his spy has to indure, information is much more important, before allowing any medical aids...yikes
Agreed... and be it with the clear threat: "Work for me as my mole, or be responsible, when you dad loses his job, getting blacklisted; and your family will be kicked out of your family home forever! I've heard that your sister unleashed a monster at Hogwarts, do what I say, or she ends up in Azkaban!"
Everyone is annoyed too. Hermione is annoyed she has to go to summer school. Every kid there is annoyed that she's acting like she knows everything, despite the fact she's in a summer school. Every teacher is even annoyed about as she acts like she knows everything even more than the teacher.
Well true, I don't blame Professor Snape either. He has Umbridge, Voldemort, Dumbledore, and students to deal with. He really doesn't need Harry Potter on his plate.
Dumbledore is just not a good leader because he wants himself to have the power, never anyone else.
Yep, so many different threats and bribes could've worked on Ron. It's just somewhat strange that nobody really exploited it. :v
Totally justified...imagine how embarrassing it had to be for her parents to explain that their darling daughter got expelled from an *exclusive Scottish boarding school*, and her constant disrespect against her peers and her teachers...she still believes to be the most superior among them all :(
Exactly...and if Harry had taken it seriously, then it may have even worked...but not with that attitude..after all those visions did make feel Harry special...especially *after saving* Arthur Weasley's life...
Agreed...
Naturally...you just need to find the correct angle for it to work... Yeah, never made any sense...you want to manipulate and *exploit* those who are closest to Harry...but it's the same with: "Quirrellmort" has a whole school year access to *all students*, but nope, why should he enslave them, or turn them into his mindless pawns?
And that's why Sirius Black died. The vision was false, but Harry believed it anyway and went full head on to the ministry.
Exactly, exploiting the closest to Harry is likely going to earn a way to exploit Harry as well. And who wouldn't want to exploit the known savior of the wizarding world?
Quirrelmort easily could've done that, right under Dumbledore's nose too. In the end, Dumbledore would get the blame when everyone realizes what Quirrelmort did, and that if they notice. If they don't, well Quirrelmort got his obedient mindless pawns. :v
Agreed, and anyone who tries to best her will be accused of cheating :(
Obviously - not only due to a false vision, but because most of the order are useless - there were at least 2 order members with him, as the message arrived...you have 34 options:
1) stun him
2) chain him to a bed and confiscate his wand!
3) forcefeed him the draught of living death
4) appoint to order members as watch dogs, until the mission is done!
This is a guy, who is still weakened from his time in prison, they should be able to overpower him!
Obviously, as long as you can get away with it, and arrange for his untimely death at the final battle or even earlier...all should be fine... :/
I know...and we should believe, that he didn't do it...it's the same with meeting them at the Leaky Cauldron - Hagrid's drinking problem is well-known...buy him a few drinks, switch the packages...and you have the stone already, before Dumbledore & Co. is any wiser...and Quirrell could still be the DADA teacher, without Voldemort possessing his body!
As you said, should anything happen to the students, the blame would be put on Dumbledore's shoulders...especially, if someone mentioned "the gauntlet/trap" on the third corridor...oops
And should they not figure it out, well, then Quirrellmort ahs many mindless obedient pawns including the two possible prophecy children...
And everyone hates her for causing extra problems for everyone else. Meanwhile, she just believes that it is her right to. :/
Well yeah, but since when is most of The Order not useless? Yeah, during the first war they helped defeat Voldemort. But truly, it was just the baby's mother's love that did. So, yeah...
That would've been the easiest way to get the stone honestly.
Of course. Dumbledore was the one who decided a death course in Hogwarts was a good idea.
Naturally... - she will not understand why she now get bad marks, should she ignore the required lengths...and will complain bitterly about it...as well as refusing to go and see a therapist...
That's true...and we do not really know, how good their war efforts really were...
I know...and much less trouble for Quirrellmort, too...
Indeed...oops, misccalculated...how could that happen?
Obviously, how dare you to suggest, that she needs a shrink? She would curse you, had she still access to her magic...
Exactly...but they do not really seems to achieve more than the Ministry with all its ressources...except escalating the conflict even more...
Yep, another added bonus...while also getting extremely rich with this stone...theoretically he could even use a neutral owl to send it back to the Flamels... :3
Hermione would gasp very dramatically, looking very offended if you remotely suggest such. Of course, when she had magic she would think she wouldn't ever be in this situation again, where someone accused her of such. But here she is...deal with this again.
Well yes. A war needs two sides that want and willing to have war, violence, and/or bloodshed. The Deatheaters wanted to take over by any means, so they are willing to go to war. Meanwhile, The Order was specifically created to go against the Deatheaters.
Yay! Happy ending for everyone, except for Dumbledore and his Order.
Exactly - how dare you to even suggest that - it's just a matter of time, before she gets a special jacket and will be transported to a mental asylum...where she lives the rest of her days drugged to the gills...screaming at the top of her lungs, that she is the brightest witch of her age - and as soon as she gets her powers back, they will all pay for locking her up! :P
Obviously, and you need also someone to ensure that the conflict escalates...as originally the Knights of Walpurgis and the Death Eaters were a political movements, until someone has driven them underground - and no, you won't get a prize for guessing, who it could be! :3
Anything to stay on top, and should something go wrong, blame the other side...
Works perfectly most of the time...especially, if you do not lose the conflict...and should you lose, then you can still blame them...if you do not do it *too loudly* :P
Of course. Should you believer her narrative, she is the smartest witch in her generation. I wonder if she would be taken by a cult and be burnt at a stake because of it. :v
Yup ^v^
Of course. If you win, you win. The winner often gets to control the narrative of the story. Meanwhile, if you lose...well, whispers of blaming slowly spreading around the area as if a rumor. Nobody can blame gossip now can they? (They absolutely can and will do so, much to The Order's utter disappointment.)
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